ICS上海外语频道专访赵崎院长（论语篇）

 

Last week on ‘In touch’, my colleague Aixinjueluobei learned about ancient Chinese customs, and tonight she highlights the differences between ancient and modern customs.

上个星期我的同事爱新觉罗贝学了古代中国礼仪，今晚她将告诉我们古代礼仪和现代礼仪之间的区别。

 

AiBei: Mentor Zhao, so that all the things have been taking care of before the class. Shall we start our class here?

爱贝：赵师，在上课之前我们做了很多的事情。那我们现在可以开始了吗？

 

Zhao: Yes, please sit.

赵师：可以了，请坐。

 

AiBei: I have to sit like this for the whole class?

爱贝：我必须要一整节课都保持这样的坐姿吗？

 

Zhao: Yes, you can.

赵师：是的。

 

AiBei: How long is the class usually?

爱贝：通常一节课是多长时间呢？

 

Zhao: One hour.

赵师：一个小时。

 

AiBei: One hour? Waoo......that is going to be very challenging，I will try to be maintained.

爱贝：一个小时？天呐，这是一个挑战，我尽量保持吧。

 

Zhao：So let’s start the class. First, we need to recite it twice. Okay, follow me. 

赵师：那么我们开始上课了。首先，我们要把这几句话诵读两遍。跟我读。

 

Zhao（赵师）：子曰：吾十有五而志于学，三十而立，四十而不惑，五十而知天命，六十而耳顺，七十而从心所欲，不逾矩。

 

AiBei（爱贝）:子曰：吾十有五而志于学，三十而立，四十而不惑，五十而知天命，六十而耳顺，七十而从心所欲，不逾矩。

 

Zhao: Again.

赵师：再来一遍。

 

AiBei: Twice? Okay. 

爱贝: 两遍？好的。

 

AiBei(爱贝）：子曰：吾十有五而志于学，三十而立，四十而不惑，五十而知天命，六十而耳顺，七十而从心所欲，不逾矩。

 

AiBei: Why do I have to recite it twice?

爱贝：为什么我要把这个读两遍呢？

 

Zhao: You see, reciting can make us have a basic understanding and meanwhile, the teacher can correct any pronunciation mistake made by the students. But more importantly, you know the Analects of Confucius can date back to 2000 years ago, thus the pauses between the words are very important. You know the difference pause method used even in the same sentence can give us totally different meaning.

赵师：是这样的。诵读可以让我们对这些话的意思有一个基本的了解。同时，老师也可以纠正学生的发音。最重要的是，对于2000多年前的『论语』来说，每个字之间的句读都是很重要的。不同的句读方式，即使是在相同的句子里也会产生不同的意思。

 

AiBei：Right. It was you emphasized. I have a quick question. I have seen in videos and movies, especially young children, when they recite words, they do like 人之初，性本善. Is it mandatory?

爱贝：是的。这就是您要强调的地方。我有一个问题，我之前在视频和电影中看到过，尤其是一些小孩子，当他们诵读一些诗句地时候就会像这样：「人之初，性本善。」这是必须的吗？

 

Zhao：In the past, Chinese students never read but sing, like sing a song. So they need to match the rhythm, so they make this movement.

赵师：在古代的时候，中国的学生从来不会读，而是唱，就像在唱歌一样，所以他们需要与之相配的节奏，也因此他们做这样的动作。

 

AiBei: What do you think about this first that I just recited?

爱贝：那您对我刚刚诵读的这些话是怎么理解的呢？

 

Zhao（赵师）：我们可以看到，这边有一句关键，就在于这个「学」字，我们会觉得「学」是学习文化。但实际上在2000年之初，『论语』的这本书里面，它是指的是修身。

 

AiBei: So seems at the age of 15, you need to learn how to practice your inner peace.

爱贝：所以，似乎是在十五岁的时候就需要学习如何修身了。

 

Zhao：Yes，to make yourself like Junzi. We say...... 

赵师：是的，使你自己像个「君子」，我们现在说是......

 

AiBei: To be a gentleman. 

爱贝：做一位绅士。

 

Zhao（赵师）：然后我们说到「三十而立」，那么「立」，我们经常说到的时候，我们现代人会想，立一个事业。我们经常会说：「三十岁了，您应该有一个自己的事业。」但实际上，在当时的时候，我们回到当时的历史背景，因为我们说国学最重要的是回到2000年前当时的历史背景，所以那个时候，我们说「立」就是用「礼」。那串起来讲，在三十岁的时候，礼节, 就我们说的etiquette，已经完全融入到孔子的血液里面。

 

AiBei: Oh, so it is like this. Because in nowadays, especially for people were born in the eighties，they were almost in their thirties, or even pass thirties. So when they have birthdays, the parents would say you are thirty now, you should be independent, you should have your career, you should be able to support yourself financially and have a family. So I think that’s a common understanding of 「三十而立」。

爱贝：现在的社会，尤其是出生在八十年末的人，基本上是在他们过三十岁或者超过三十岁生日的时候，他们的父母会对他们说：「现在已经是三十岁的人了，应该要学着独立，有一份自己的事业了，也应该要经济独立，有一个家庭了。」所以我认为这就是普遍意义上理解的「三十而立」了。

 

 

AiBei: Mentor Zhao, you know in traditional Chinese classes. Chinese students don’t have a lot of questions, that’s a common phenomenon, not only her in China, even when Chinese students study overseas. Is this because in the ancient time that the teacher like a commander, so there is no room for different opinion?

爱贝：赵老师，在传统中国课堂上，中国的学生并没有很多的问题。这不仅仅是国内的一个普遍现象，即使在国外学习的中国学生也是这样。难道是因为在古代的时候，老师就像一个命令者,不允许有不同的意见吗？

 

Zhao: It is not just only happen in ancient China, but you can see it is common in the medieval Europe. Overtimes the things have changed greatly and nowadays, I think teachers and students have closer relationship and even like friends.

赵师：其实这不仅发生在古代的中国，在中世纪的欧洲，这种现象也是普遍的。随着时间的流逝，这种情况已经发生了很大的改变。我觉得现在老师和学生之间已经建立了一种很亲密的关系，甚至像朋友之间一样。

 

AiBei: Usually in China, classes are usually around 40 or 45 minutes with 10 minutes break. In universities, usually 90 minutes. What about the ancient time, how long is the class?

爱贝：在中国，通常一节课的时间是40或者45分钟，然后有10分钟的休息时间。大学里面一节课通常是90分钟。那么在古代呢？一节课是多长时间呢？

 

Zhao: Okay. You see the class time was based on the western system. Actually, in ancient China, no set time for classes, actually the students were following their masters and teachers before finishing their apprenticeship. So a teacher would start class while a student has raised a question. So if you ask me that how long is one class in ancient China, the answer would be one’s whole life.

赵师：上课的时间是建立在西方教育体制之上的。事实上，在中国古代，并没有为上课设置时间，学生是一直跟随着他们的老师直到完成他们的学业。所以，老师以学生提出一个问题来开始他们的课程。如果你问我，在古代，中国一次课持续多久，我的回答是一个人的一生。

 

AiBei: Thank you, Mentor Zhao. Thank you so much.

爱贝：谢谢赵老师，非常感谢您。

 

Zhao：Thank you, so today class is over, but notice that in the end of class, there are more customs to follow.

赵师: 也谢谢您。今天的课程就到这里。但是要注意，在上课结束的时候，依然有些规矩要去遵守。

 

AiBei: I have to say my legs are very numb after sitting here not even for long，I need more practice.

爱贝：我必须得说，即使坐在这里的时间不长，我的腿已经感觉很麻了。

 

Zhao： Yes, actually it’s a common phenomenon.

赵师：是的，这是一个普遍现象。

 

AiBei: So is there anything else we need to do when we close the class?

爱贝：那当我们课程结束的时候需要做些什么呢?

 

Zhao：Yes, we need to bow just as the beginning. So let’s do it.

赵师：我们需要像课程开始那样鞠躬，我们来做一下。

 

AiBei: Thank you, Mentor Zhao.

爱贝：谢谢老师。

 

Zhao: Thank you.

赵师：谢谢。

 

AiBei（爱贝）：您辛苦了！

Zhao（赵师）：感恩！

 

AiBei: Now the class is over , I really have a lot of thinking and reflecting when I get home. The culture and philosophy of China really services as an enlightenment to help people to seek spiritual guidance. There are so much to learn and so much to ask. So if you are looking for something to clear your mind, this maybe what you are looking for. Thank you for spending your time with me. Until then, take care.

爱贝：课程结束了，我回家后一定还会有许多思考和回味。中国的文化和哲学在帮助人们寻找精神支柱的过程中确实起到了很重要的启蒙作用。有很多地方值得我们去学习，值得我们去探索。所以，如过你是正在寻找那些能够帮助你平静心境的东西的话，这里或许就是你正在寻找的。感谢各位花时间与我一起去感受这些，今天就到这里。